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Saturday, October 25, 2008

RE: We do not live in a KRITARCHY –rule by judges... Munro strongly supports Prop 8 in defense of traditional marriage

RE: We do not live in a KRITARCHY –rule by judges or in a CRYPTARCHY –rule by secret coteries. My definition of democracy is government of the people, by the people and for the people.

except of a letter to a friend.

Dear X:

I know you don’t agree. But good people can agree to disagree. I strongly support prop 8 and because it I have come under a torrent of hate mail that I am against equality, that I am anti-gay, that I am against democracy and even that I am a racist etc. etc. But my conscience is clear. I don’t worry about personal attacks now; I did not worry about them in 1997-1998 when I supported Prop 227.

You know me well enough that I believe in living and let living and that I can peacefully coexist with the other be they of a different race, creed, sexual orientation or political persuasion. I respect the right of people to have a private live and live as they choose AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT HARM OTHERS nor do things that will HARM SOCIETY.

I do not believe the liberal doctrine of absolute equality of condition and absolute equality. Yet no one could be a stronger advocate for individual freedom than I but there are limits.

Blind people are not equal to you or me; they cannot be granted the privilege to drive an automobile and for good reason because the health and safety of the public is an issue.

13 year olds cannot drive legally and for the same good reason. Driving is a privilege not a right.

13 year olds cannot marry under any circumstances because by our law and tradition they are under the age of consent and even with the consent of their parents and guardians are considered too young to be able to commit to something as serious as marriage and child-bearing. 16 year olds (and slightly younger in some jurisdictions) can marry only with the consent of their parents or guardians.

Similarly, marriage between two consenting adults, one male and one female, is a privilege and not a right. T

he California Courts comparing gay marriage to interracial marriage is offensive and fallacious to me. It is offensive because our opponents claim we are sexist AND racist.

But racism has nothing to do with this campaign. This campaign is about defending democracy and the rule of law and defending the American family and in a real sense defending America itself. If we do not have strong families, we will not have a strong society. You can spend all the money you want in politicized schools but society will fall apart and drop in education standards as it is dropping now.

American society was built upon religious pluralism but all major groups agreed and had a consensus on some key issues such as the basic wisdom and goodness of the Bible and on marriage, monogamous marriage, between one husband and one wife and barring incest –though of course the exact definition and scope of incest varies somewhat.

You will recall the Reynolds v United States case (1879). The Supreme Court upheld a federal law against the practice of polygamy. Chief Justice Morrison Waite argued that the federal law prohibiting polygamy was not a violation of rights because polygamy was widely viewed as harmful to society and so for the good of society some rights-in this case religious practices- may be limited.

I am campaigning actively for Prop 8; Sunday I will dedicate four hours with hundreds of other volunteers calling registered voters all over the state to urge them to support Prop 8 for three basic reasons:

1) It is undemocratic for a coterie of judges to change fundamental laws and traditions of the people by fiat. This kind of judicial activism is abhorrent. The people already voted for Prop 22 affirming traditional marriage.

2) The unintended consequences of upholding so-called Gay Marriage may lead to a complete breakdown as to what is marriage. People will flock to California and unleash a torrent of law suits in all 50 states. In these troubled times this is nothing more than a vain and selfish act. Also I don’t see how they could stop incest, underage marriage , polygamy polyandry etc.

3) We have already seen how public schools are forcing pro-gay agendas in public schools. Teachers will be required to attend diversity training (indoctrination) and any criticism of the gay and lesbian agenda will be viewed as ‘hate speech’. This is creeping totalitarianism. I dare anyone to try to restrict my free speech. I will oppose it with every fiber of my being –to the death.

Prop 8 will not take away any rights from anyone; gay couples have with the recent civil union laws gained all the rights they say they wanted.

I just think everything about this gay marriage campaign has been duplicitous, underhanded, corrupt and undemocratic.

We do not live in a KRITARCHY –rule by judges or in a CRYPTARCHY –rule by secret coteries. My definition of democracy is government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Prop 8 will be an expression of the people, by the people and for the people that is for the good of our civil society.

If Prop 8 fails, of course , I will peacefully coexist with a society which exalts the Ayres of this world and embraces many customs and practices which I think are wrong and morally evil.

But there is no question it would help alienate me from the government and the society which thinks marriage is not important and essential to the education of children and the good of society. I hope I do not survive to see the fall of the Republic but the seeds of its dissolution and fall are all around me. God help us. We are becoming an American Babylon.

I know you don’t agree but I wanted you to know how I felt. I don’t hate anyone, nor do I want to persecute anyone. People can live their private lives as they like. But marriage is a not a private matter. Marriage is a public matter a very public matter and is the most important social contract in our country by far. I agree with Dennis Prager that this could be a turning point in American history and that Prop 8 is one of the great issues of our times –more important than the ephemeral triumph of this party or that.


Ricardo Munro


From: [] On Behalf Of R K MUNRO
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:10 PM
Cc: 'jul
Subject: RE: [ROFTERS] Re: Father Neuhaus Says it Well...Again


Dear X; it is God's truth: CTA gave 1 million to defeat Prop 8. As a
public school teacher I am ashamed. But personally it strengthens my
conviction as to the need to educate children in what is right and what is

My wife and I were talking about it and she said it just means parents have
to work harder against the forces of evil and corruption in what is fast
becoming our American Babylon. (Of course she is aware that her Spain has
become a Spanish Babylon -Gay marriage already has been legal there for
years thanks to the Socialists)

And of course I am -on both sides of my family descended from families who
refused to go along with the official state religion; my mother's family
were Free Church Evangelicals and my father's family were Scottish Recusants
(though there are some Scottish Episcopalians -not Anglicans thrown in
there- but I was always told most Catholics publicly said they were
Episcopalian just to avoid trouble and persecution

I think traditional families are going to be persecuted and some as you say
will withdraw from society.

The sad part is even patriots like me start to doubt if the America we are
becoming is worth fighting for. Eventually it will get to the point of no
return. My worst nightmare would be to know my daughters or granddaughters
(none yet) were forcibly conscripted into the combat arms of the military.
Actions like that would not be 'equality" they would be the end of private
life and a true persecution of religion.

Gay Marriage is not equal rights; its about getting privileges and access
to money and inheritances and eventually Affirmative Action preference in
hiring and promotions. Marriage is a privilege and to me a sacrament -you
would call it a covenant I believe but it is the same thing-. Jesus' words
on marriage could not have been clearer.

See for example Benedict XVI's commentaries on Jesus's teachings.

VATICAN CITY, OCT. 8, 2006 ( ).- Here is a
translation of the address Benedict XVI gave today before reciting the
midday Angelus with the crowds gathered in St. Peter's Square.

* * *

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

This Sunday, the Gospel presents to us Jesus' words on marriage. He answered
those who asked him whether it was lawful for a man to divorce his wife, as
provided by a decree in Mosaic law (cf. Dt 24: 1), that this was a
concession made to Moses because of man's "hardness of heart", whereas the
truth about marriage dated back to "the beginning of creation" when, as is
written of God in the Book of Genesis, "male and female he created them; for
this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his
wife, and the two shall become one" (Mk 10: 6-7; cf. Gn 1: 27; 2: 24).

And Jesus added: "So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has
joined together, let not man put asunder" (Mk 10: 8-9). This is God's
original plan, as the Second Vatican Council also recalled in the
Constitution Gaudium et Spes: "The intimate partnership of life and love
which constitutes the married state has been established by the Creator and
endowed by him with its own proper laws: it is rooted in the contract of its
partners... God himself is the author of marriage" (n. 48).

My thoughts now go to all Christian spouses: I thank the Lord with them for
the gift of the Sacrament of Marriage, and I urge them to remain faithful to
their vocation in every season of life, "in good times and in bad, in
sickness and in health", as they promised in the sacramental rite.

Conscious of the grace they have received, may Christian husbands and wives
build a family open to life and capable of facing united the many complex
challenges of our time.

Today, there is a special need for their witness. There is a need for
families that do not let themselves be swept away by modern cultural
currents inspired by hedonism and relativism, and which are ready instead to
carry out their mission in the Church and in society with generous

Munro: marriage is between one husband and one wife. Anything else is
PORENIA and is morally wrong and evil. Sexual immorality is wrong. It was
wrong yesterday, it will be wrong today and it will be wrong tomorrow. It is
harmful to true love and harmful to children and families and in the long
run corrosive to society.

Most Protestant versions of the Bible translate the Greek word porneia with
the terms you mentioned. Porneia can mean any kind of sexual immorality. The
specific word for "adultery" used in 5:32 and 19:9 is moichaomai when it
says, "he commits adultery." Your interpretation requires that porneia and
moichaomai are synonyms, but I don't think that is the case.

Here is another article:


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